Episode 16: A Chat with the Inspirational Heather McMahon -- How to Take Good Care of Yourself

Speaker 1
0:25
Hi, and welcome to the Storied Human. I'm here with a friend Heather McMahon, and she's got so many good things to share with us about how to stay healthy mentally, and how to keep your attitude the way you want it to be. I was intrigued and wanted to know more about her background. So welcome, Heather.
0:42
Hi,  how
0:43
are you? Doing? Well, how are you?
0:46
I'm doing well. Thank you.
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Speaker 1
0:47
So where did this start? Like I'm I don't really know your background? Like, how did you end up working in the field of mental health and counseling? And what did you major in in college? And how did it happen?
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Speaker 2
1:01
It was a very convoluted long journey. Using years and years. It was not the start at point A and go to point B. I started in the 80s. And I went to school for my associates in Human Services. And I only chose that program because they did not require an algebra credit from a school. totally get it. And literally, I was like, yeah, I gotta get some degree in something somewhere that was easy to get into. And I did that. And then I went and through that started working with kiddos in underserved communities, and went into early childhood edge, did that degree associate worked on that, and thought I wanted to go back to school to be a school teacher. So I started that journey later in the 90s. And was in a program, a professor said, you know, you, you really, I was inspired by their course, psychology course. And I started to look into working with kiddos with eating disorders. And so I started that kind of stuff and nutrition based kind of work. When a professor took me under her wing and said, You need to go to graduate school for psychology and counseling. And I said, No, I doubt and she said, and in the moment and did a double major with a concentration in addiction, because at the time eating disorders was still my interest. And that's a process addiction. And now I do drug and alcohol counseling and mental health counseling and private practice. And
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Speaker 1
2:41
that's what I do. So the professor was right. The professor
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Speaker 2
2:44
is still a very dear and beautiful person in my life, mentoring me still to this day.
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Speaker 1
2:51
Yeah, wonderful. And I hear this a lot like professors see something in you before you see it. And they really encourage you. And thank goodness for them. Because it's hard to find our niches, you know, it's hard to find what we're meant to do. That's so good. I didn't know that you concentrated in children and you still concentrate in children or I was
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Speaker 2
3:13
for many years, really kind of mainly focusing on adolescents, and last few years between COVID and not being able to be in the schools and meeting in person as easily that sort of has gotten to the side because I'm pretty much working remotely now still. But I do a lot of couples work, a lot of still family work. And I've got a lot of college age kiddos. So I'm kind of a little bit of everything.
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Speaker 1
3:39
And you you still obviously love what you do. Like I always hear it in your voice when you talk about it. You seem so happy and like that's something a lot of us wish we had because I'm a tech writer, and it's really interesting, and I really like it. I'm glad I like it, but I don't love it. You know? And I envy people who love what they do. But I love this what we're doing right now I love so I love adding that to my life. But it's just so cool that you found the thing that makes your heart sing. Yes, I've been so fortunate Yeah. And that you can be of service to the world but you're you're putting something good out there you're helping your healing. I just love that feeling that you're in that. So what I really want to know because May is Mental Health Month what I really want to know is what what can you tell us like what what are your overriding messages that you wish you could tell everybody? Because I noticed you put a lot of positive things on your social media and I love them. I read them every day. But what I guess what are people's misconceptions about mental health or especially I suffer from depression sometimes. What can you tell us about coping like what you wish people knew about how to cope or when to seek help, like any any kind of advice that you have? We could really use
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Speaker 2
5:03
I think what you're doing your podcast the story of life, letting people tell their story and have their story heard. I think that is the first step in anybody figuring out what they need for coping skills, what they need for management in their life, stress management, or whatever else. Because they, they sometimes we know our story, but made out loud, it changes its power in us. And that's what therapy is all about is coming in and having a safe space to share the story, the story of now the story of before. And so I appreciate what you're doing and giving space for people to have their story heard. It matters. Yeah,
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Speaker 1
5:44
when I just stumbled on that, like the story that you tell yourself, you know, internally, and then I realized there's a whole discipline inside of psychology called Narrative psychology and, and I was like, Ninja degree, because it's so interesting to me to approach humans that way to approach because that's sort of my instinct, as an English major, and a person sort of obsessed with fairy tales, and fables and myths and stories, and just, why am I obsessed with it? It's because that's how humans connect, they tell stories. And you can tell a lot about somebody, by, by the stories, they tell, and you're so right about, like, I've been in therapy on and off short term here and there when I need it. And I've raised my children to think of it as a totally normal thing. Because my mom was a therapist. So I just think of it as a wonderful, you know, I have this secret helper, like always on call, you know, I can always do it when I really need it, right. And I noticed that when you say it out loud, it's just, it takes the power away, you didn't even know you were thinking it and then you say it out loud. Like that, to me really hit me, you said that there's such a power to saying it. And I feel like with certain friends, now that I'm older, too, I really share with my friends. And we create a sacred space. And I think that's what therapists do. They create this sacred space, where you're safe. And we just don't have them in our regular life, especially people in conflict or dealing with someone with addiction, you know, usually, it's very difficult to, to be safe and say what you need to say. So I think what you do is sacred work. I really looked at it that way. Thank you. More people went like whenever I go to therapy, I'm always like, I'm going with the people that are making me go I wish they would. Not that they're making me go but just you wish more people when you know, right? Right? It's not. It
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Speaker 2
7:46
doesn't have to be intimidating, scary. Like, you can look behind the curtain. It's so it's a safe place. Some people really
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Speaker 1
7:51
have like a thing, you know, I don't, but I get it. Like some people, it's a mystery to them. And, and I have friends who swear to me, they don't need it. And I have to like not. Do you know how hard it is for me not to laugh hysterically. I mean, I respect them. Maybe they don't what do I know? Right? But to say that, you know, I would never say that. In a million years. I had my aunt God rest her soul. When I told her I was depressed, and I was struggling with it. And you know, and I didn't go into detail. I just said, you know, I'm a little down. And I had reasons, you know, I had reasons. And she said, I've never been depressed a day in my life. Like, thank you. That was so helpful. I said to her, I couldn't resist. I said, No, but you have anxiety. You've been kind of anxious. I've seen you be anxious. Dead silence. And I said that's kind of like the flip side of depression. But um,
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Speaker 2
8:54
yes. Yeah. And also,
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Speaker 1
8:58
I read about the Celtic connection. Like there's a true Celtic connection to depression as like, you can go you know, my dad was an alcoholic. You know, I smoked cigarettes as a as a self medicating thing for a while. And yeah, there's like a, it's a real thing. There's like a, whatever you want to call it. There's there's a melancholy Irish thing. Kinda like genetic. I was like, Oh, so that's why it feels like it's in my bones.
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Speaker 2
9:31
Yeah, yeah. Something I found really interesting when I was doing some of my studies in nutrition is that you the idea of eating to your ethnicity, so if you're European eating that way is meant for your mind and body for a reason. So I think about that, you know, stereotypical potatoes. And I love potatoes and I I absolutely have times that I absolutely need a potato. And I really believe like that releases dopamine for me. In the different foods so smart. Oh, you
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Speaker 1
10:00
should do a book about that a little ebook online. Okay, little guy. Oh, that's so powerful. You know, it's so funny. I love oatmeal. And I found through ancestry.com that I'm even more Scottish than I knew. And I'm like, almost half Scottish. Yeah. Wow. And oatmeal is like my favorite. Like, that's my happy place and potatoes too. I love potatoes. Tomatoes always make me feel good big potato. One of my favorite things to make is potato leek soup. So I love that connection that you're making. It's crazy, right? And epigenetics, the whole epigenetics thing, I've only scratched the surface of that I don't really understand it. But the idea that the Potato Famine could have an effect generations later, but some of us have weight problems because of that. Yeah, our bodies are overcompensating. I mean, I would love to blame my weight problem on that. But I mean, part of it. I always say, I'm set up to survive in an arctic tundra, basically. But you may be
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Speaker 2
11:06
healthier than someone that has a different body mass like that. That's the visual does not match the true health inside.
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Speaker 1
11:13
I see that all the time. You can't tell by looking because I know skinny people that are like, you know, a minute from a heart attack. And then there's me. For some reason I have all good bloodwork, like my endocrinologist, I do have thyroid, but my endocrinologist loves my bloodwork. She's just like, Yeah, you should probably lose some weight, but you're doing great. pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides, but I also eat pretty well. You know, I try really hard. lowered the carbs and the fiber, but I love sugar though. That sugar thing. Oh, my goodness. It releases dopamine. Does. Oh my gosh,
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Speaker 2
11:53
dope. Dope. Exactly. And that's all connected to the to the those are coping mechanisms. I eat them. Because it makes me feel better. I do this drug because it makes me feel better. It makes things go away. They're all coping mechanisms. Yes. It's just picking the ones that serve us more in a health promoting way
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Speaker 1
12:11
than not a great way to put it. It's like a walk would be better than a piece of cake. Yeah, definitely. And it but it's hard for people to establish habits. I'm not a good person with consistency, I have to really work hard. And I also did lose track of time, like I definitely am that kind of person. Do you think creative wacky people just have a harder time in general with consistency and habits. There's a really
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Speaker 2
12:39
neat component in positive psychology that actually challenges you Camille's you to find something that makes everything go away. So for an artist, if you're painting on a canvas, you're not thinking about the electric bill you got to pay or the fight you had with someone last night you are just at the canvas doing the thing. And that creativity if you have it, and you can tap into that, and it makes everything go away. Yeah, it's a it's a coping mechanism. But it's also we meet that absolute disconnect from the stress in our lives. And those things that bring that so whether it's somebody baking or making a piece of furniture, or singing, being in nature, all of those things are so necessary. And we really got a lot of time to do that. And COVID If we chose to, and coming back out into the world, people are often feeling higher levels of stress, because they don't have that time to completely disconnect the same way.
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Speaker 1
13:44
That's so powerful. And maybe we just don't teach people to do that enough.
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Speaker 2
13:51
We don't give ourselves permission, I have to do this, this this this for someone else, or, and when we me feel selfish and self centered, often, the messaging in the session women,
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Speaker 1
14:02
especially as women, oh my god, I put my kids first and I look back on those years, and I barely comb my hair. But it's hard for me I think to to multitask. I think some people just are not so good at it. So I focus totally on one, you know, that's what I tend to do. But I've always written and, and I find that that's my happy place. Like, that's the zone you know. And it feels magical. It feels magical. Like they talk about the Muse and all that it's definitely that way. Like a lot of stuff just comes I don't know how to explain it. I wrote a poem in college that won an award and the first two lines just came to me out of like, who knows where, right. And it was it was I'll never forget it it was but then the question comes up why don't why did you wait so long to start writing again, you know, it's like, that happened to you, but you still thought I've got to be, you know, very responsible and get a job and like oh, that. So yeah, I don't think we teach people to keep that in their lives, whatever that is. And I've thought about that a lot. Like, it could be anything. Because I remember spending a lot of time with moms when we had little kids. And I was like, Look at this creativity, like they think people think they're not creative. And you look at their homes, they're so beautiful. That you know, the quilted coverlets, or the beautiful needlepoint pillow, or even just the colors they chose, like you see this creativity, and they don't really give themselves credit. But that's something they're very good at. Yeah,
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Speaker 2
15:31
yeah. And being able to just do it for you, no matter what another person's opinion is of it, right. So paint on a canvas, you don't have to be a person that can go put it in a gallery, just the sensory, the sensory, I love to paint and nothing wonderful comes out as far as I'm like. That is it's very connecting. And the multitasking is a myth. I'm gonna just throw that out. You're right. It is, isn't it? Yes, it is. Because the brain can only focus on one thing at a time. So we even give ourselves a hard time about not being able to do it once, like, the animal kingdom does not do 10 things at once they aren't they sleep, they eat, they drink, they protect, like, but they're not, you know, it's just not kind to ourselves not
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Speaker 1
16:16
built that way, right? Well, you know, I always love to say like, our bodies are the same as 100,000 years ago, you know, they haven't changed much. But society has changed so much. And technology is not built for our human bodies. And so we're in this like crisis, this stress crisis, of having to deal with this too much information. And unless you I think the work you're doing is really important, because you're helping people become conscious of that, and take a break and step away, I don't think enough people are getting that message, I just see people, you know that first of all, people have to work so much some people just to survive. And so that puts you in like this reactive survival mode. And I just feel that's just so hard for people. And that changes
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Speaker 2
16:55
brain chemistry, we provide this or we perceive it as stress, or even just the stress on the organs in our body, it changes brain chemistry. So then we therefore respond to the world in a different manner and perceive it. And
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Speaker 1
17:06
there's a lot of fear, yeah, it's justified some of it, you know, it's like, you're afraid you're gonna lose your job. And things are tough, and everything costs more. I mean, I just often feel like incredibly lucky that I don't have those stressors anymore, and that I live in a house with words behind it. But the simple things that just helped so much, sit with my coffee and look at the woods and listen to the birds. And some people don't have that at
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Speaker 2
17:29
all. No, but they can access it. So yes, yes, I, I never want to minimize someone's circumstances, financially, socially, career wise, any of that. There are creative ways to access. So if I can't go to the woods, I can go to a local public library, hopefully, possibly, and watch on a computer screen nature, but even that would meet your sounds, or very few people are not in a situation where they can't access a cell phone, even if it's out there, taking a walk, even if you live in a busy, loud, snowy city, there's beauty in architecture, there's beauty there is wildlife in the middle of cities, like but you're gonna look for and know that the tapping into that on an intentional way can change the stress response can change the blood pressure can change the rate of all have it.
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Speaker 1
18:20
So I feel like you're trying to get that message out. And it's so great. I feel like I see that in your social media and your Instagram messages. I just feel like you put that out in the world. That's so helpful. That's so good. You know, we're all interconnected. Just it's so amazingly powerful to think that not only disconnecting help you right away, but it literally physically changes. I never even thought about that. That's so cool. It changes your brain, because we're part of this whole thing. And I just feel like people have gotten so far away from that.
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Speaker 2
18:50
Yeah, yeah. And there's so much science behind the truth that we need a connection outside of ourselves. So whether that's creation or creator, or whatever that is, I mean, I, I will, I will sometimes throw prayer up to my aunt who's passed away during a Red Sox game because she can get something done up there, you know, that, that pulls you outside of yourself that that faith in something is so connected to our mind, body and spirit that we need and
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Speaker 1
19:22
felt that way. Yeah. Yep. The physical and it's way beyond like what your religion is. People need something right? We're all connected. And this is the thing that kills me. I have a blog and it says, you know, we are not separate. That's the, that's the subtitle, because we're not. And when we are convinced that we are separate, that's when it's so painful that we act in that fear mode, and we don't remember who we really are. We're all part of this big, beautiful humanity. And I think it took me a while to get there, you know, but I now like to talk about that because it's so important. And I feel I feel like we're shifting I feel like the world is shifting. I really do. I feel like More people are waking up. The response to Ukraine really convinced me as awful as it is. And it really depressed me when I first heard about it, like, I didn't know what to do with it, like a lot of people wait, we don't know what to do with it, we can't really help. Maybe we can send money, but it's so awful. But but then I started to say to myself, look at the whole world, the whole world is supporting Ukraine, like when have you seen that, and that, to me, made me feel better, it's like much more positive. It's like, the world has changed. You know, maybe some people do remember that we're not separate. I've never seen a response like this in my lifetime.
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Speaker 2
20:33
And I, you tap into the idea of we aren't connected, and we felt isolated. And we're coming back out of that isolation. But think about when we first started with COVID, that people were there was a camaraderie, there was an energy there was a support worldwide. And people in America seen what people in Italy were doing singing to each other across the balconies, and you know, all these things. And then it got, it got too much. And we went into that isolated fight or flight or freeze mode, and come out the other side, the awakening, I think, is part of that we need that connection again. And when we talked about the spirituality have something outside of ourselves, that includes the human connection, because there's a spiritual experience, there's a chemical experience, when you sit across the road with another human, it's your brains release signaling to each other. And our brains are meant to help us survive and helps us connect, and it helps us detect danger. Yeah, that's so powerful.
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Speaker 1
21:34
And it's so important to remember. And somebody said to me, like, if you really want to see who we are, see how we see how we act, when there's a crisis, see how we act when there's a disaster? How do we act act beautifully, we help each other. And I always say that's who we really are. Hold on to that, because it's easy. It's when we forget it,
21:53
though we do we do. There's that fear,
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Speaker 1
21:55
you know that you're gonna lose your job, or you have to please them. And I just think the more people we can remind, I was caught in mind who you really are, yeah, remind someone of who they really are. And that's part of the whole universe. Yeah. Well,
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Speaker 2
22:09
it's offering a space to find that if you don't miss creating people who say, Well, I've got to go back and do all these things backwards. And it's like, Nope, this is so trite. And everyone has heard and I'm sure but that's why the rearview mirror is so small, refer. But don't you can't focus on that when you're driving down to your next destination or your something that's not going to go well. So coming forward and moving forward to building up who do I want to be? What kind of job do I want? What's going to bring me joy? Yeah, yes, we have to pay the bills and, and have food on the table? How can I creatively fill my life with what brings me energy, joy and peace instead of those needs met? There are ways I love that,
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Speaker 1
22:52
yes, you got to like open up your mind. And I do like the idea that you know, I have a job that I like, right? But that doesn't mean I can't do other things that I love to fill my other parts of my life with stuff that bring me joy. So the whole the whole package is good. I think a lot of us were late 80s 90s, we were like, how do you define my passion? I need to have a career that fulfills me in every way. And it's like, well, good luck with that.
23:16
And you have to stay there for 30 years.
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Speaker 1
23:17
Yeah, exactly. This whole passion thing. Like, I mean, I respect people that have a passion, it's great. But it was said too many times, you know, when I was just like, I remember saying to somebody, my passion is I like a paycheck. But I also was raised very risk adverse to having your own business or exploring things. Like a lot of people, I think, especially older people, like I was raised to be afraid of having your own business. And I witnessed my father have his own business, and he lost money. And so the the message was, don't do this, you know, be safe. But that's like the worst thing in the world to say to someone like me, because all over the place like, I can't fit in that corporate box and stay there.
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Speaker 2
24:03
But this feeds your creative side, right, and you and you're doing it and you're giving back. And I think that's key, no matter what your circumstances writing are ways to give back. And that releases stress and anxiety and all kinds of other negative thoughts and feelings is is and that's the first thing I tell a lot of clients that are really having a really tough time with anxiety and depression. Go spend one day volunteering, clean a trail, work in a soup kitchen, go through the closet and donate something, that thing that pulls us outside of ourselves and that the fear based response to our careers, our relationships, our
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Speaker 1
24:44
Yeah, one thing I found so cool when I was when my kids were little it was I got super involved with all the volunteer stuff at school, and I felt like that just made me feel so good. Right. And I and I had been without kids for so long, but I didn't do that. I mean I did do eat myself for a little while, I tutored English. And that made me feel so good. So we have to get this out out there more people don't necessarily think of that when they're sad or in crisis, right? You're so right. That's what you need to, you know, this little like set your mind, right? It's a paradigm shift, it's
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Speaker 2
25:15
a perspective shift, it can, again, if you can't go out and do something you can, there's something in your house, you can give away to someone that needs it. Even if it's a, you know, set of crayons to the local school or library, like there's, there's always something that we can do outside of ourselves. That's so
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Speaker 1
25:32
good. What I like about your advice is a lot of it is very practical. And you find a way to you find a way to help someone find that wherever they are, whatever their environment is. And I love practical, because people can hold on to
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Speaker 2
25:46
that, you know, and people find it too easy like that doing that isn't going to make a difference. It's too easy. And the brain making it hard because that coloring a picture is gonna make me feel better. I don't think so. Yeah, try it. You know, try it. In the end, I've yet to hear someone try something. If they don't like if they don't like coloring, of course, please don't do that. Don't keep trying it, it's going to suddenly magically work. But keep trying a lot of different things. There will be something that will be the thing for you playing with playdough. I don't know going outside and counting the leaves on a tree, there's, there will be something that will spark a shift in your energy and in your thought process.
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Speaker 1
26:31
It's such great advice. I think people need that advice. I love that. Is there anything else you would like to share with us?
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Speaker 2
26:40
I think you are going to change a lot of people's lives by the stories you let them tell. So thank you for doing what you're doing. And I you know, just giving yourself permission. Something small, they don't have to be big things. They don't have to cost money. But something that just says wait a minute, I matter. And I'm going to find something that helps me remember that whether it's the extra glass of water in the day, or a walk in the woods or whatever the thing is, I'm gonna find those things. And I do, I encourage and challenge I hope for people to do that. Because it's, we're stuck with ourselves, we might as well take care of ourselves. I tell my clients that all the time, love the back, because we forget that I forgot
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Speaker 1
27:23
to be nice to myself. And I slowly got back to that. And it's wonderful now, like I get up every morning, I have this habit of looking in the mirror and smiling at myself, I read it somewhere. It's like the internal smile. It's like a Buddha. It's a Buddhist thing. And I just thought, well, I could do that. That's easy to do. So I started doing it every morning, I still do it. Every time I see myself in the mirror, I smile. Because what do you do when you see someone you love? Right? No, I'm so loving to everyone else, just like dogs. And I would I would say that it's not dramatic, but over time really helped. I'm getting chills because it really helped. And I tell people, it's such a simple thing you can do to be kind to yourself, sort of taking care of my skin started putting you know lotion on every night not forgetting. Wow, these little things that tell your cells and your body. I love you. I'm taking care of you. You may I just It took a while, you know, but I got there. So when I did, I did have breast cancer in 2018. And I was ready to have it. I know that sounds crazy. But I had done genetic counseling. And they were definitely you know, I didn't have any genes that were bad. But they knew that the preponderance of cancer on my dad's side meant that I probably should be on the lookout, especially breast cancer. So they started upping the frequency of my tests. I tell everybody go get genetic testing. If they say you should. There's nothing bad. There's no bad side. Yeah, like the probability that you have something is, you know, very low, that you'd have a bad gene. And the good part is they'll tell you how often to have your tests. They'll tell you, they'll give you a plan so that you can it's not a plan to prevent cancer. It's a plan to find it. I don't think people understand like, they started putting me on like instead of a yearly mammogram, I did a mammogram in January and an MRI in June. So every six months, I had something. And I said to my husband, I was so happy because I said, Look, if they find something, it's going to be really little because it's only within six months. Well guess what? They found something and it was really little. I had 20 days of radiation
29:37
done. Wow. I mean,
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Speaker 1
29:42
it's amazing, but when I mean I was ready for it. I understood they were looking for it. I had a surgeon who was like a nut. Like she would take a bigger, biopsy was negative. She put me in surgery and took a bigger sample. It was negative. It was benign and she said I don't like the way the cells look around this sample. It's like she sniffed out my tumor. It was a teeny tiny tube. She felt it. Yeah. And I was mad at her at the time. I didn't understand. You know, there's so much more aggressive Now earlier, which is great. Yeah. So when she finally told me she found something I wasn't surprised, you know? And she's like, well, we usually have to give our patients like an Ativan. Why are you so calm? And I was like, Well, what did I think you were doing? You were looking for it. And you found it. This is great. And I say this, because I think so much about where are you when these things happen to you? Right? I wasn't a good place. And my husband was super supportive. So I could do it. And I thought so much about youth, this happened another time. And what if you were alone, and all these, you know, it's so different. When you go through something like that, and you're supported and you're feeling upbeat, I used to talk to myself, I used to say, Alright, we're gonna, we're gonna fight this, this is going to work, we're going to be fine. I used to talk to myself, like every day, I love that and works, it works. But I caution the cautionary part is I was able to do that I was at a good place. I was supported, my husband would drive me there, he would brush my hair, he would bring me protein drinks. I mean, so many people are not supported. They don't have the kind of like, I live in a place where we have ridiculous health care. So I have a surgeon who was looking really hard, and I have mammograms that are easy to get, you know, so it brought that whole focus of not everybody has that.
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Speaker 2
31:28
In what you're talking about is preventative, proactive, rather than reactive. I'm willing to have my sense of self my peace of mind in place before it's like a fire drill, right? We have those before the fire. If we wait until the fire and go which door do I go out? Right? That's that's when we can't handle those situations as well. And again, everything you're saying about you had access to, okay, so if I live somewhere, and I don't have family that support me, or friends or coworkers, join a book club dream, a hiking group of people, even online, that they then create your support, you find your tribe, you find your your energy, that most things happen, you've got a buffer, you've got people that are like, I know you and I'm here for you, even if I can't get to you physically, just an emotional connection can help.
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Speaker 1
32:26
Sort of the funnel. We talked about that. Yesterday, when I talked to Tara, we talked about prevention. And she talked about why are people waiting till something happens to their health, why can't they eat better now, and be in better shape, and be able to handle things better. And she also talked, we talked about tribes, I use the word tribe, it's so important to put those things in place. I was so grateful. Because if you have to have breast cancer, that's the way to do it. I mean, it was, I don't want to say it was easy, but it was not that at all. Because I didn't have chemo. Right? And that's the whole thing. Now they're trying really hard to aggressively find your camera when it's tiny. And nail it with radiation, you're done. Now, the worst part is they give you this medicine. They give you a medicine if your tumor is estrogen positive, right? They suck the estrogen out of your breasts. That's what the medicine does. It's called tamoxifen if you haven't had menopause, or elimite x if you have. So I was like, right on the line. I had menopause really late. So they gave me this and they said, Well, you're probably I said, my symptoms are like killing me. And they're like, well, you're probably paying menopause. I was like, thanks for sharing. But it was really good. I went from like nothing, no menopausal symptoms to the worst. So it was actually worse than the treatment. But it's still worth it, I tell people, it's worth it find a way, you know, you get a get an ice pack and put it on your neck at night, you know, and put it on your chest and, you know, get outside and walk you'll feel better. And it's so worth it because it reduces your recurrence rate to 17% less than the average woman's percent, you know, it's like 21% that you'll get cancer in your lifetime. My mind 17% that I'll get recurrence. So every time I got miserable with the symptoms, I would go online and I would read that, you know, because I like data. I'm a logical person, you know, I like data I like as creative as I can be. I really cling to data. So I was like, okay, 70% I can do this. Because you really do you just want to go off it. I read tales of women who went off it. But you know, I believe in science. I really do. Yeah, absolutely. we digress. But it's really important to have that tribe. It really is.
2
Speaker 2
34:43
Yeah, yeah. In with there's science behind you having a conversation with people in your podcasts. There's science behind writing their science behind reading their site. Most of what we do is data driven. So in the world of psychology, if you're concerned about going to therapy because you think it's gonna be this Hokey Pokey wiener thing. It's data driven. It's it's kind of off the board. There's different personalities. If you sit with a therapist and you're not jiving and personality, it's like buying a car. Go try another one. Yeah. The body that therapist,
1
Speaker 1
35:17
right, yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I've actually been through that. And I am I kind of regret that when you need one. You have to shop for one. Yeah, sometimes that's tough. But um, yeah, I did. I went to one. And she was I don't know why she was a therapist. Actually, she was pretty horrible. But it was okay. I was like, whatever, someone will drive with you. And I found another one who was like, you know, the opposite? Yes. She was just so kind. And so I don't know, I think some therapists are like angels. I really do. She was just so soothing. And she was just what I needed. She was so soothing. I think also, because I lost my mom when I was 43. So when I get a woman like that, I just, you know, it, it hits all the places. It's just such a loving shift, like a really loving presence. And I have to say that since I've had breast cancer, I am like, I've always been pretty compassionate. And I tried to be loving towards my friends, but I just don't hold back now. Yeah, I say it and I love I just feel this love for people. And I let it out. Something happened. You know, like yesterday at the party, like my son's graduation party. I saw a couple that I hadn't seen in a while. And the woman is my old old friend. And I said something about their son, I sitting originally, we're talking about your son, and he's such a kind person. He's such a good person. And they were like, thank you. And I was like, No, we really noticed it, you know? And then we talked about, they said, Well, we feel that way about your son. And I said, yeah, he's my son is very sensitive. I said, but he was lucky enough to be raised by my husband, who is very masculine but gentle. And I looked at Joe, who I don't talk to that much my my friend's husband. And I said, we were talking about you, Joe, you're that kind of dad. And I said, you're very loving, and you're very masculine, but you're very fueling. And he was just like, whoa, but like I just say it now, Heather.
2
Speaker 2
37:10
My night? I just, yeah, I just put it up there. Yep. And I think that's beautiful, because no one has regretted the the not. They've not regretted doing the thing as much as they've regretted not doing the thing.
1
Speaker 1
37:25
Well, there's a mouthful, yes. Yeah. It's like, I think that's my whole thing now is like, well, you know, like it or not, you've got a limited time. You know, when you when you hit a certain age, you're like, Okay, there's so many years in front, perhaps if we're lucky, right? I'm going for the maximum I can get? I'm going for 90 or more. But you know, what are you waiting for? Basically, that's where I got. I also read a study that said, people, you know, people live longer who have stuff to look forward to? Yes, they literally do, and have a happier older eight, like a lot of I've seen happiness studies that say people that are older are happier,
2
Speaker 2
38:08
because they're not worried about all the other thoughts and opinions and feelings of others in a way that it dictates who they are. It is so true. Yeah. Right. And they've maybe hopefully created a space for themselves to say misfits this belongs that doesn't get it doesn't belong, whether it's people places or things,
1
Speaker 1
38:25
and there's a peacefulness because we're trying to imagine retirement, you know, and I said to my husband, we won't have this distress of like, trying to squeezing this, you know, getting the garden in and fix up the patio. And, you know, all this, I said, it will just be you know, we'll just do it. Yes, we will do it with a lot of pleasure, because we'll have time. Yeah, it's like a lovely thing to look forward to. And I just love the reminders that you have, like, I just, I think people are going to be really helped by this conversation, and your social media messages and just your work. I love the volunteer reminder. I just love that creativity when you like find your thing. So good for people so healing. So I thank you for this time.
2
Speaker 2
39:12
Thank you. I thank you for all you're putting out into the world as well. Thank you. I
39:16
think it's a mutual admiration society.
39:18
I think we're pretty stuck with each other.
39:21
Even Have a great day.
39:22
Thank you. You too. Bye bye.
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