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Hello, you've reached the storied human podcast hosted by me Lynne Thompson. Each week I share a story, either an interview with someone fascinating, or short solo from me. I love your stories, and I learned so much from them.
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Hopefully you will, too. So welcome. If you are new here, I'm so happy to have you. If you are a returning listener, many thanks. So here it is the next episode of the story, human.
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Hello, and welcome to the story of human. today. My guest is Kendall Russell. She's a Canadian Mental Health activist.
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And she has her own podcast. And it's called, it's just mental, which is such a great title. I love it. She's suffered some physical problems when she was an athlete, she had some major knee problems. And she also has had a brush with her own mental health. And she wants to share with people and help them understand and not be weirded out by mental health. So welcome, Kendall, so great to see you.
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It's great to be here.
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I love what you do, you know, I do have like an affinity for, for mental health. And I really think we should spread awareness and be like people say be just as normal as going, you know, to see about your headache, right?
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You go to the doctor for your headache. Yeah. I like that. One of my guests pointed out, like, if you have diabetes, they would put you on a medicine for a long time. You know, and sometimes if you have a mental health problem, sometimes you have to take a drug for a long time.
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It's no different.
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Definitely, and I think one of the big misconceptions comes from or I guess, misunderstandings is that if we could see mental health as we can see any other physical injury, which, as it stands right now, unless you went and got a CT scan, that's not really probably going to be possible, I think people would have a greater empathy or sympathy for what you're going through, if it was something visible, that could be tracked with data or statistics, or I'm sure there's statistics out there, but it's not like a broken bone. It's not like a twisted ankle or any of those things it can't be seen physically. And so a lot of people just can't have empathy for that or just can't understand it.
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Yeah. And a lot of us weren't taught anything about it. You know, especially me because I'm way older. And I was taught like, you know, Buck up, buttercup, you know, everybody was taught like, you know, you'll be fine, just keep moving or whatever. Somebody literally told me recently, she she has serious mental health issues and the doctors because the doctor said, Just keep busy. Like, just keep busy.
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just bury it down and hope it doesn't come back up. I know. Yeah. So you're you're you're working to, you know, up against the tide of all kinds of misunderstanding. What kind of people do you interview on your podcast, it's just mental. I love that title.
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I'm one of our big, big proponents and reasons for starting the show was to help the everyday person share their story, a lot of podcasts out there, they put emphasis on celebrities, or people in the press already that kind of have a platform where they're already able to share their story. And I think what was missing for me when I was consuming podcast material was the relatability element. I can't relate to being Kim Kardashian, I can't relate to being any kind of celebrity because that's just not my life.
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And so we wanted to have real people with real stories who were going through real shit, so to speak, and have them share and by doing so enable those around us and within our community to feel a little bit less alone.
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I think that's great. I love the emphasis on regular people. I did interview somebody earlier in my podcast, and she has bipolar and she went to the Institute of Mental Health at the National Institute of Mental Health. And she asked, you know, for help with this video that she was making, and they started giving her all these names of these super experts. You know, like we have this psychiatrist, and we have this psychologist and we have and she's like, No, I want to talk to crazy people.
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Of course, like having an expert opinion is obviously like that gives you credibility, it makes people feel, I guess a little bit more. What's the right word?
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I guess it depends who you're talking to, too, because everyone finds comfort in different things. Having an expert just validates that those feelings have some kind of scientific background or basis to them. So a good mix of both is obviously I guess the direction that we would love to go.
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But her feeling was there were tons of experts like I've looked up stuff. And there's tons of stuff, you know, WebMD. And there's the Mayo Clinic. And there's psychological centers, and there's like psychiatric centers, there's a lot of expert advice out there. And what she wanted was like, a chat. You know, what it's really like, what it feels like. And I think that that really makes people understand, you know, like, what people go through, and what it feels like. I mean, both are needed, right? But we just don't see enough regular people. So hopefully, you'll help that, you know, I really like that. We have to talk about it. Like it's nothing. I still get, like, if I'm in a different group of people that aren't really close to me, I get the weirdo reaction when I say, Yeah, well, I have I have mild depression, it's, it's been tough at different times in my life, and I get the weird face just kind of drops. They don't know what to say. They're very uncomfortable. And I'm like, Oops, I shouldn't have said that. Not with this group, you know, but I want that to be normal. Someday, I want that to be regular. Like I sprained my ankle, and I'm feeling depressed. It should be both.
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I 100% agree. And I think a big part of that comes down to we have been for so long, I know, you touched on this idea of our parents, like my parents generation, it was not a thing that you talked about, it was almost like an embarrassment or, yea, like a flaw to who you were as a person to be depressed or to have anxiety. And so when those things got brought up, it was not a matter of how can I support you it's, well, you're going to be fine. And that's it.
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That's it. And when I grew up as a competitive athlete, so everything in my life was always well, that's just the way it is, you got to just keep pushing, don't stop, don't give up, just keep going. And that kind of bred this instinctual response to me, especially when dealing with my mental health that okay, well, it's not going to get any better. So let's just shove it down deep into the crevice of the unknown, and just hope it doesn't resurface, resurface and cause more problems. And I think that's really interesting, because you were a serious athlete. And so you had that sort of model, like you toughed it out, you just keep going, you know, the the ones who achieve great things, they go the extra mile and so that you applied that to your mental health, which, you know, it doesn't always work that way.
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It does not, and it at times, it actually works in the complete opposite direction that you would probably think pushing everything down only makes, I guess, the eruption that much bigger when it does come to the surface again, and it will come to the surface because it's unresolved. And that's just the way that things work.
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That's a really good point, if you don't deal with it, if you don't go through it. You know, it stays with you. I mean, I went to a therapist after my mom died, it was about 22 years ago.
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And she just said, when you stuffs, stuff it down, it stays there all this time, you know, all these years? I was in my early 40s, you know, and she goes, Oh, no, it stayed there, you never dealt with it. And, and you have to deal with this.
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And she taught me it seems so simple now, but I just didn't know it, I didn't know to really try to go, you know, they say you have to lean into the pain, which is sort of counterintuitive. You have to go through it to get through it.
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And that's like one of the biggest things that I've had to learn in my life, because it's not, it's not an easy thing to do. It's not comfortable. And I think that's why a lot of people just continue to push it to the side, hope it doesn't come back up, pretend or try to ignore it.
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And yeah, like I said, when it does come to the surface, and I'm speaking from personal experience, that there is a Am I allowed to like swear, I'll just mark it as explicit if you want to.
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Okay, I was just gonna say that kind of that kind of enacts the shitstorm that follows with trying to deal with. So every everything else is like a ripple effect, domino effect that when one falls, the rest are gonna come with it. And it's this unearthing of seemingly every single thing bad that's ever happened in your life. And so that's something I'm still working on. That's very moving and honest of you.
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And that's really how it works.
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And we're all still working on stuff. And I just, you know, how different would the world be if we were taught this as children, you know, if we were taught actually, yeah. And I did try to, I mean, I did raise my children to, you know, don't be afraid of therapy. It's normal, and, you know, you can cry and, you know, keep crying, you know, until you're done crying. So I did make some inroads, I think, you know, they got other messages from outside the house, especially my son 100% And when you grow up, I had a fantastic childhood. My parents are the best people.
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Ever but feelings and emotions and stuff like that were not things that we really talked about. And so when stuff like that did come up, it was kind of a conversation of okay, well, who do I talk to, if I don't talk to my parents, and I don't tell my parents. And what ended up happening with me is I kind of just went off the deep end, choosing to deal with it in unhealthy ways, which is looking back, obviously, that's not it's a bandaid for much deeper issue.
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And I think that's what drives a lot of people, especially young people to alcohol and partying, because it's the ability to numb out what's going on inside that you don't want or don't have the capacity to deal with. And it's easier to do that than to face this horrendous, like, sometimes the what you're feeling inside, and what you're thinking about yourself is worse than what you could potentially be doing to numb that.
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Yeah, I was gonna bring that up, that's excellent. People turn to whatever to self medicate. You know, it's like, they don't know that maybe talking about it with a professional would help them or talking about it with you know, somebody who's a friend or finding someplace to be where you can talk about it and work on it. So instead, they, you know, I drank too much, and I smoke too. And it worked. You know, they said, a lot of people who smoke have low level depression, and the nicotine just like pops them up just enough to feel better. So it actually works, although you're risking lung cancer. So I did quit like 30 years ago, like 32 years ago. But it's, it's so sad to see that, because you see people in a habit of going out and drinking a lot more than the rest of their crowd. And you know, there's probably pain behind that there's probably something going on.
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There's something and I think, for me, especially it was a matter of, okay, if I can just make other people laugh, if I can focus my attention on other places where the attention isn't on me and my problems, then I've averted a crisis in itself, just by doing that I don't have to talk about how I feel. Because that's uncomfortable. It sucks.
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It's painful. And the alcohol just made it easier. It just made it easier. And I'm not proud of that time of my life.
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But I think sometimes you just got to do what you got to do to survive and get through shit, because life is not easy.
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I totally hear you. And it works. You know, I mean, it's not good for us. But it works.
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I had a friend who actually said that to me once she said Kendall, I don't I don't think what we do to get through mental health sometimes should be looked at as a negative thing, because at the end of the day, you're just trying to survive.
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And what is the alternative? If you don't do that? I think that often gets lost in translation, too. Obviously, there's better ways. But yeah, if that's going to keep you alive, and that's going to keep you on going to the next day, then I don't think it's necessarily as bad as we make it seem.
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Nobody's perfect either. You know, nobody's perfect. We're all doing the best we can exhaust. So how did you get better? I mean, what finally happened for you, after that big implosion, you sound like you really had a moment, like a dark night of the soul. I have struggled with depression and anxiety my entire life. It kind of came to a head in my sophomore year of high school, I was gearing up to be recruited, which had been a goal of mine since I don't know I like I can't remember a time where I wasn't planning on playing after high school. And I ended up tearing my ACL during that year, which was in itself an identity crisis. So that was something I was dealing with on top of all of the depression and the anxiety went through a really rough spot. That's when all the drinking happened, and went away to university. A couple years later, I had a realization that what what was I doing here?
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Like, what was my point in doing all of this? And how was I going to make positive changes to get better, because I wasn't happy with the life I was living. I was miserable, actually. And it took a very long time. Like I would say probably within the last year, I finally started to feel like myself feel happy again. And it's been a lot of digging up past experiences, finding out why certain things affected me the way that they did, because there always is a reason whether you want to believe it or not, why you react or why you do things a certain way. And so digging into that and trying to heal those aspects of my life has been crucial in I guess, coming to this place of feeling a little bit more healed.
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That's a great story. So what would you recommend to other People like what what what have you learned? What what should they do if they feel like they're struggling?
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Number one, reach out to someone I know everyone says that it's cliche as, as all can be. But those people and I'm not saying just reach out to anybody, you need to have a close support or a friend, even if it's a therapist in the beginning, who, at the very least, can sit with you and feel heard. One of the biggest problems that I'm still dealing with today is this idea of every time I've gone to somebody for help, it's almost like I am invisible. And so this idea of finding a circle of people that I know I can go to, and their ears are open, has been instrumental. And then also just focusing on my health, my fitness, eating properly has been huge, too. But yeah, those, those are the I would say, the friend group and the relationship aspect of going through something like that is the most important part of it.
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That's wonderful advice. I really liked how you emphasized reach out to someone because that is so hard to do. But it's crucial that I found when I was grieving my mom, it was a very sudden death. And I just kind of like fell into what they call complicated grief, which I always say I'm a type A, I'm a high achiever. So not really, but I make a joke that I couldn't just have normal grief, I had to have complicated grief.
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But it's really miserable. It's it's depression and grief mix together. I learned through the therapist how to feel my feelings, which sounds so basic, but you know, I didn't reach out to the therapist right away. And I, I liked to be alone, I enjoy my alone time. So it felt like I needed to be alone, and I had little children. And I would tell my husband, well, you can take them, they'll love that they'll have a good day, and I stayed home alone, and it didn't help. So I love that you say reach out to someone. And I think the other side of that is if you see a friend who's struggling, you know, don't don't say oh, it's not my business, or oh, you know, if they want help, they'll say something, or oh, it's private.
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Just put yourself out there.
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Because that wouldn't really help me. You know, one of the biggest things with mental health and something I would encourage anyone who's listening to this is somebody who is really struggling. And I can say this from personal experience is not going to reach out for this sheer reason that they feel like they're a burden, and they feel like them coming to you is going to complicate your life or be unnecessary by some means and stretch of communication. If I had to give my younger self one piece of advice, I had a couple of friends that were going through some really hard stuff in high school, and I did not know how to help them at that time, I had not experienced the type of mental illness that I had experienced after that. I wish I would have reached out to more of my friends and just ask them how they were doing. Because one of the biggest things is just not feeling like people care, and not feeling like what you say matters to any extent. So the likelihood that your friends are probably going to reach out to you and ask for help is very slim, because they don't want to bother you with what they feel is not your problem.
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Right? You're right. And the closer you are to someone, the more you don't want to burden them. Exactly. But that's not your decision. That's what's so terrible about this. That's not your decision. That's the other person's decision. I'll take this on. I'm your friend, you know, exactly, no, we don't see that when we're in the grip of depression or anxiety. We don't see that. And I didn't see that. I just said, oh, I need time alone, but it made it worse.
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One, you're not going to when you're feeling that type of way, however dark it gets for you.
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The last thing on your mind is thinking about yourself. Like you don't, at least for me, when I was at my darkest lowest points, it was always well, I don't want anyone else to feel this. So why would I put that on them? I don't think when you're in those moments, and when you're in that spot in life, you don't. You've just don't want anyone else to feel that horribly because you know what that's like, and it sucks.
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Yeah, you wouldn't want that right. Now, when I was in college, that was my, my first encounter with depression and I they had counseling services.
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And I felt comfortable because my mother was a therapist. So I felt like well, I'll go and I was so lucky because the person I got was a Buddhist and she was so like mellow. And I just loved her. But I mean, in the ensuing years, it's been hard to find a match. And that's terrible because like the last thing you want to do when you're feeling like crap, is shop for therapists. Oh That's like a whole other thing. But I forget what I was gonna say, oh, because depression is not always sadness, I think it's really important to say that I was numb in college, you know, during that period, I didn't, they say you won't enjoy things usually enjoy. What they mean is, you're not sad, you're not happy, you're nothing. You know, you're, you're numb. And that's terrifying, especially, you know, if you didn't enjoy these other things, and all of a sudden you don't, that's like a really big sign. So it can manifest in different ways.
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100% and I just going to that numbness. Part, I think, it leads to this overall bigger question of why am I here? What is my purpose? Why, what is life? If I can't experience it fully? Those are questions that I found myself asking regularly.
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Because if I can't enjoy the amazing life and the things that I'm able to have right now, then why, like, what is the point in continuing? And I think at that point, it was a matter of okay, obviously, this is serious. I also grew up thinking that everybody felt that way, which is not, that is not a normal way to think it is not a normal way to live your life is to constantly be feeling like you don't belong here or that there's nothing here for you.
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There is something here for you.
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It's just your brain quite literally is not working properly. Yeah. I think if I could, that is one other thing that has really helped me is that I'm coming to this understanding that a therapist told me she's like Kendall, it's not your fault. It's not your fault that you're like this. You are, you're sick, just like someone with a broken arm, just like someone who has chronic headaches, you're sick. And whether people can see that or not, it doesn't change the fact that your chemical makeup in your brain is just different. I think when people approach it from that perspective, or when you can look at it as a matter of you didn't do anything wrong.
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It's just genetically, you were just disposition to this and it sucks. But it's not your fault that's going to change and open so many more doors for you.
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I love that she said it that way. And that's exactly what you need to hear. I just I love that. Yeah, I love that. And, you know, I felt like, you know, my friends were moving on. And we were all in our 20s. And they were getting married and everything was happy. And I didn't feel like I was part of it. And you're right, that's not normal. But we just feel like, you know, it's normal for me.
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And eventually I did get eventually I got help. It was a lot of time it just feeling off.
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You know, that's a great way to put it just feeling off like you don't feel like yourself, you feel removed. One of the big things that I experienced was depersonalization, almost like not really being in my body or not feeling like I was physically or mentally there or available, which I now know is probably a trauma response, which something that's a different conversation. It's something I'm still dealing with. But yeah, your body, the anxiety. Another thing that's quite helpful to think of is anxiety is your brains and body's way of protecting you.
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Yes, you're getting anxious because your body is programmed to not put you in situations where you're going to get hurt, or where you're going to get harmed or something bad is going to happen. And so it's just a heightened response to that programming that you have. And a lot of the time. Yeah, it really changes the way that you think about it.
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Yeah, it's a hype. It's a normal response that maybe some of us have too much of Yeah, exactly.
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Definitely. I mean, I do feel good that I see more and more like tips, you know, on the internet, like, you know, five things you can do if you're having a panic attack or an anxiety, a feeling of anxiety.
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So I think there's, you know, there's discussions that are happening, but we need, you know, we need more like you said, we definitely need more actually. And I remember the first time I had a panic attack, I again, I was like, Well, I wonder who else has these like, I just thought it was normal.
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Nobody talked about it. I didn't see anything. At that point, on the internet or on social media of people talking about this kind of stuff. It's a very vulnerable position to be in.
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Nobody really wants to say that.
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Oh, hey, by the way, I've had five panic attacks this week.
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And so there was a lack of information, even available at that time for you to go and feel. Okay, maybe I'm not in this alone, because at the time it feels like, you know what, there's a million people but I'm the only one that's going through this. Yeah. And that's just simply not the case.
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And that's such a physical thing. Like that's, that's what people don't get, like that's you feel like you're done. I are having a heart attack. It's such a physical thing. And the idea that people just have to deal with it and keep on going is ridiculous. And who can function like that? It's just not good for you.
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I think once we come to an understanding that the brain and the body are connected, and that what we think, and our thoughts are manifested in how we feel, and the actions that we take, like, for example, with a panic attack, that thought comes, it manifests into increased heart rate, increased blood pressure, feelings, like you're going to die, shaking at some times, hyperventilation, like all of these things are fit, like you said, they're physical symptoms of a mental illness. Yeah. And I think it's crazy for us to continue to assume or to think that the brain and the body are not connected, because we know now that they are, yeah.
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That's such a good point. So when you mentioned earlier that, you know, if people could see scans of brains, they might understand better, and there is a doctor that does those scans.
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Dr. Ayman, have you ever heard of him, he does some stuff on public television. He, you know, he's kind of controversial. He's like a psychiatrist that really believes in brain scans. But I think he's done wonderful work with, like, football players.
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And he shows that part of what happens when you get concussions over and over, is you get depressed, you know, it's physical, he can see it in the brain. And so, I think that if more people, you know, if we go that direction, people will start to understand, like you said, you have an illness, I have an illness, you know, my, my chemistry doesn't work quite right. In my brain. And I overreact, I definitely overreact. And, and I get depressed, and I've noticed too, like, you start to figure out how to manage, like, I can't spend too many days at home.
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That doesn't work. I've noticed like, if one bad thing comes along, I can handle it. Two bad things. Can you handle it? You know, three or four? I'm starting to lose it, you know, like, I just can't handle it.
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It's like, they layer up. And my brain says, I don't think so we're gonna bring it down. You know, we're gonna when it rains, it pours.
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Well, thank you so much. Is there anything we missed? Is there anything else you'd like to say?
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Honestly, if you could take one thing away from anything I'm saying today, it's, again, this is going to be so cliche, but you are not alone, you are not the only one that's going through this. And at times, when it does feel like that I just encourage you to reach out. I know that sentences in itself can carry a lot of weight.
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Because people throw that around all the time, especially with campaigns like ballots talk.
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It's almost like that's just what you're supposed to say when someone's going through something. But do you really have the capacity to take that on? That's a different conversation. Yeah. So reach out, know that you're not alone.
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And there is a community of people out there that wants to support you, you just have to find them.
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I love that. I think that, you know, you never know who's going to hear this. And I think you help some people out there.
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Maybe, you know, they realized something that they needed to realize. So thank you so much. I love talking to you. I'm going to put all your stuff in the show notes. And we're going to put the link to the podcast.
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It's just mental, which is a great name. I love that. And you'll send me your website and, and other ways that you would want people to get in touch with you. Of course, yeah, for sure.
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I can do that. And best of luck with the podcast. I think you're headed in a wonderful direction. We really need it.
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Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for letting me come on and share a bit about my story. And yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of conversations we can start to have and what conversations we can change.
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I can't wait to listen to to your stuff. Thank you so much.
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Thank you very much for having me.
